Fedora Core 5 to Include Mono

If Ubuntu follow suit, I'll be switching to KDE.

Sh!t did I actually type that, never, ever thought I'd live to see the day, (been running GNOME since the 1.x days).

Make no mistake M$ are just waiting in the wings for their technology to get a foothold.

Do you trust them?

At least have the guts to post non anonymously.

Having said that, Beagle looks real groovy as do many of the other apps developed under MONO, (never installed them just looked at the screens and read reviews).

Not that I made any negative comments about any of the applications developed under MONO anyway.

Not only that but Microsoft did develop C# as part of their .net initiative.

MONO may well be an open source implementation but it is still based on Microsoft Technology.

Firstly I am not questioning whether the technology is good or not, personally I believe that it is good technology.

Also I am not at all critical of the applications developed with MONO; Beagle, FSpot & Tomboy for example are all great applications.

Neither of these two points are in question as far as I am concerned, and if it for not the following point, I would embrace MONO and the apps built on it with relish.

MONO, and hence all the applications that are developed with it are based on Microsoft Technologies, .net and C#, albeit Open source implementations of them.

The key term here is Microsoft.

Microsoft cannot be trusted, they have "embraced and extended", bought out, litigated against, and generally 'done over', their 'competitors' in the past, using a whole range of 'business strategies'.

I really like GNOME, have been running it since the 1.x days, nearly jumped ship, during the early 2.x days as a result of the 'quantum leap' in simplification, have stuck with it, and love it dearly.

However should GNOME become 'reliant' on MONO , (open source implementation of .net), then I and others no doubt, will go elsewhere.

"Good riddance", 'farewell troll', or 'we don't need fair weather GNOME supporters like you', comments may or may not follow such a reduction in user base.

Fortunately these kind of comments are not representative of the majority of the GNOME user base.

Last but not least of my little rant is that I hope that I am proven wrong. That at some time in the future MONO, and the outstanding range of apps that have been developed with it can live happily alongside and/or with GNOME.

However I for one am not so naive as to trust Microsoft, not one little bit.

Cheers.

Baron Thurlow is supposed to have said something to the effect of "Did you ever expect a corporation to have a conscience, when it has no soul to be damned, or a body to be kicked?". You are directly refuting that time-honored wisdom.

Believing the myths you apparently do, you should be very angry at how corporations today are treated around the world; these legal fictions get more rights and are burdened with fewer responsibilities than flesh-and-blood people. The power corporations wield today is superior to that of people and democracy, while corporations themselves are thoroughly anti-democratic organizations. Some contend that 'voting with money' is sufficient, but that is not democratic because people and organizations with more money end up with more "votes".

Evidence supporting Thurlow is overwhelming. One of the most concise and thorough expert analyses of the subject is the aptly-titled movie "The Corporation" and the book of the same name. The central question of the work is if a corporation is legal person, what kind of person is it? Joel Bakan and Jennifer Abbott use the checklist found in the current DSM to conclude that "the modern business corporation is created by law to function like a psychopathic personality".

Another powerful book is "Blue Gold: The Fight to Stop the Corporate Theft of the World's Water". This book thoroughly researches a specific aspect of corporate power—what's happening to one of the most valuable global resources today, why don't we have a right to gratis potable water, where will potable water come from tomorrow, and how did water come to be controlled by unaccountable private tyrannies (in other words, multinational corporations)?

Corporations have the right to be treated as a human because they mimic humans, they have minds and souls configured out of many employees which are like its synapses and neurones, they have their own thinking pathways to make decisions based on their merits, both moral and practical.

What pile of complete crap, corporations do not have souls. This is a good portion of whats wrong with our world. They should never have been treated like humans. If there was ever a law that f**ked up so many things and did so much damage to our world, this was it.

Really, you need to think long and hard about this.

I don't drink Coca Cola, haven't done for years. Yes this does mean that I did once.

The term 'company' by definition means that more than 'one person' is involved. Then again I have not made comments that refer to any one 'individual', who works for Microsoft.

I have not made any comments with regard to who funds any project, open source or otherwise.

In short, what relevance, if any, does anything in your response have to my previous post???

I stand by my position regarding mistrust of Microsoft and it's 'business tactics'. There is certainly enough evidence to support this.

Ubuntu already has Mono.

Enable the universe repository and type
apt-get install beagle f-spot muine
or any other Mono-app you want to install.

And libmono and other things are already in the main repository in breezy.

Maybe I need to spell it out for you,

Should it go down the path of joining GNOME to MONOs hip, then I will jump ship.

It's because Microsoft owns it and Microsoft is not just unfriendly to free software, they are actively opposed to it.

All it will take is one agressive move by Microsoft and all of the effort being put into Mono and Mono applications will be rendered worthless to the free software community. It doesn't even have to be a patent suit, it can just be a deliberate effort to "embrace and extend" their own standard.

To think that anything from Microsoft can safely be used as component in free software is naive to the point of idiocy.

it's because mono is a known patented technology. (no, don't say ecma/rand -- think of winforms and asp.net)
it's because microsoft sees linux as their major threat.
it's because microsoft alredy proved to use _every_ way to shut down its competitots -- legal or not.
it's because if mono will become a core part of gnome, we could just say bye-bye to gnome.

"it's because mono is a known patented technology. "

So is Java.

All of your points are equally valid for Sun and Java... did you misunderstand the original message?

"what happens to applications written with Mono if Microsoft gets angry?"

Port them to Java or something else (who knows what will be available at that point). Even this unlikely worst case would be no drama at all. If Microsoft ever "gets angry", they are likely in much deeper trouble than us anyway.

Indeed it is, yet Microsoft don't hesitate to take advantage of any opportunity to squash there opposition.

No I'm not clueless, but it is a fact, that Miguel would really like gnome to be build in mono, and that redhat was the greatest opposition.

No I'm not clueless

This is still to be proven, especially if followed by:

but it is a fact, that Miguel would really like gnome to be build in mono

It's not "a fact", since Miguel never said this.

It's a fact, though, that Miguel wanted to write GNOME using Scheme, at first. I therefore propose that we switch the entire code base of GNOME to Scheme. After all, it's just some hundreds of thousand LOC - how much time will it take?

Debian - Even Hell Freezes Faster. -- seen on #debian-devel

Yea, I really hope, that this will speed up the freeing of java. It is really the last part of suns software, that hasn't been freed yet.

Because redhat has taken with mono, doesn't mean that they support it over java. I still believe, that redhat is the main proponent for java.

And noteworthy: At the moment, and at least for some years in the future, mono doesn't have any really good IDE, but Eclipse.

And considering that Mono can run Java byte code -- it's no contest unless you happen to be a hardcore Java zealot who hates .net/Mono.

Or simply someone with the sense to recognize when they're being led down the primrose path.

As Sun USES Gnome, why should they not like gnome using java?

They would, but on their terms and licenses. You base your system on Java, and you put yourself at the mercy of Sun and its patents. You build GNOME on Java, and you are turning over control of it to Sun.

You're presenting a false dilemma. Sun's Java doesn't belong in Fedora or GNOME any more than does Mono. It's not necessary for Fedora or GNOME to include either of them.

I believe I said that when I added "reject both".

Legally Java and .net have much the same problems. Technically .net is way ahead.

So... reject both, or choose Mono since it is technically superior.

Java is proprietary, and so is .NET.

Mono is free software, and so is GCJ.

Fedora already includes free Java, and now it's adding free .NET.

gcj has got jit.

[laugh] Nice one. Have you tried that? GCJ is no substitute for Sun's JVM.